Hi I am reading http: I did a search on ET but could only find a few references, do people think Woodies CCI method is a good and profitable way to trade the Futures market, in particular YM? Are there any traders on ET who use Woodies CCI method and can perhaps describe how successful they have been with it? I got the new SFO magazine for this month and they have an article about him in there. You might check that out. I feel asleep friday after work reading it I find it highly amusing that someone with the handle Osho would ask about woodie. TeddyTheTrader May 2, I don't know of anyone that is successful trading it the way it's taught. I believe that almost everyone in the room is unprofitable. Looking at 1 indicator for all your decisions and leaving price out of the equation is just silly anyways. You need to go find something with an edge. CCI patterns are not an edge. You can find a pretty good story of a guy who failed with the CCI at http: VisionTrader May 2, I just did a search on "Woodies CCI" and got pages of info. Give 'er another try Osho and something will squeeze out. Samson77 May 2, Woodies cci is good BUT not enough in my opinion but there are a few guys that make it work all by itself. I highly recommend you spend a few months in the room but only paper trade. It is better as I also recommend you read other books forex study other aspects of TA if you want to succeed at this you will need to utilize as much as you can, not just the cci. Contrary to the big cheese aka Tampa I've been profitable using CCI and GIO's wisdom re. I think it works very well swing trading, not as consistent with the faster times Hi Dave, How profitable? Hi VisionTrader Yes, you are right there is a lot more to read, I didn't check carefully, a lot of dicussion seems to be in Chit Chat I would still be interested in getting a general idea of how profitable Woodies CCI is, TeddyTheTrader is saying WCCI patterns are not an edge but as I understand it WCCI is all about trading patterns and reacting to patterns, are these patterns still relevant? My initial impression from the brief reading I had done on ET Chit Chat forum is that people have mixed feelings about WCCI, some say it works, others say it only works if you change the default parameters, still others say it is good as a confirmation or exit tool, not quite what is being claimed on WCCI website It would be nice to get a summary from others about how useful it is to learn WCCI? Is it worth the time and energy to learn WCCI? I'm interested because the website makes some bold claims, e. You don't need to do anything but follow WCCI Everything is clearly defined, entries, exits, profit targets etc Thanks. VisionTrader May forex, I agree that the CCI has "some" helpful predictive qualities. I think what is wrong is that a new trader jumps in and tries to execute the Woodie system. Just too tough a road to hoe when you are just starting. I used the CCI to help me get a snapshot of forex trend and near term momentum. After all, I believe it is a momentum tool. Try taking a 5M chart, use a CCI Look for crosses of the zero line to indicate possible short term momentum changes and wait for a retrace of the indicator to the zeroline. Watch for what WCCI calls the Zero Line Reject. This makes good sense for a new trader. Leave the other signals alone. The longer setting keeps you from over trading and requires more patience, albeit a larger stop. Samson77 May 3, Woodies cci patterns ARE an EDGE! BUT Line BUT They ONLY work as an edge in the correct market environment. The problem is that woodie nor anyone else in his room really has a deep enough understanding of what "the correct" market environments are for each set up to work and they just say "take every set up" and that is the problem. You just can't take ZLR's and take EVERY ONE and make money in this game. This is ridicules and this is where I know that woodies cci fails. I know some people have developed filters and nuances but those filters and nuances are NOT enough because the market is constantly changing. Go into the room, learn the set ups, paper trade but continue educating yourself and you will do fine. I will WARN you now NihabaAshi May 3, I would still be interested in getting a general idea of how profitable Woodies CCI is, TeddyTheTrader is saying WCCI patterns are not an edge but as I understand it WCCI is all about trading patterns and reacting to patterns, are these patterns still line I have a question I will probably never here the end of it for asking this, but can someone explain to me how this group is finanically profitable. There are no charges for the room, which in itself draws in new unsuspecting traders I'm sure the group is good-hearted and I respect that Afterall, they are traders and we like profit. Does residual money come from Hotcomm E-Signal and others What's the deal? TeddyTheTrader May 3, Holmes May 3, That's the main reason why whenver I see someone at EliteTrader. Last of all, don't make the mistake of trying to learn Woodies CCI or any adapted version of it from someone that's not profitable via using it. The blind leading the blind. I think a ZLR is only a really good trade in hindsight- if the CCI spikes, it's too late, you've missed the boat. If you look at the trade in retrospect though, you see the CCI spike and price go up you say "wow great trade, how'd I miss it? I don't feel sorry for them- they're dumb enough to trade that way and follow a guru they should lose. Why aren't you there anymore Samson?! You were a moderator, saying how great it is, and now you're gone?! Another strike against them is that all the leftover tradealong money that they said goes to Make-a-Wish seems like it might be going into people's pockets. How much might be going into people's pockets is unknown, but if you do the math you'll be left scratching your head when they say "there wasn't much left over. It's a dirty place. There's a reason the room turnover is so high. I study the theory of Woodies CCIbut I cannot get the software of Millionaire CCI turbo. Please, tell me How to get this software Woodies CCI turbo and I can add to the charts of Ameritrade. I am the first time to use CCI in chart for trading. Does someone knows where is the website to download this software"woodies CCI turbo" Thanks. The turbo is simply the fast line of the cci. Set your parameters on the cci to 14 and 6. These are usually the defaults. The six is the "turbo". Brian Diesel Apr 28, I have been using Woodies CCI on E-Signal and Tradestation for about 3 years. I then switched back to trading equities, which I was always profitable with, and doing more swing trades, day holds. I trade equities, Crude, Forex with the CCI. I only use the CCI along with basic candlestick patterns on daily charts. It works great for me. I am not in his chat room, as I don't trade intraday. The thing with the CCI, as with anything trading system, is that you need to find what works for you. Or simply find that it doesn't work for you. I'm sure there are people that use 1 moving average and make bucket. There is no holy grail. Just need to find what works for you. Great posts by NihabaAshi and Samson. There is nothing wrong with Woodie system, the method is explained in detail, chatroom is free. Just compare it with some black box systems offered on the web. I like the CCI and I use it as one of my confirming indicators. Silversea Apr 29, Agree, I'm short from 40 contracts, life is good. It's hurbis to think that one simple indicator and a few rules will enable you to take money out of the markets consistently over a period of time. Markets simply do not reward this sort of behaviour. Millionaire they did they would cease to exist. Over the long term the only people who make money in the markets are those that exploit inefficiencies. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you won't be around in a year or two. MrsSavant Apr 29, Isn't CCI a momentum indicator? What is magical about this? There are many other indicators that are better than that piece. Electric does not use indicators, as he thinks they are distracting, he does not even use charts. Is this the same Woodie that advertises in SFO? When I saw he puts all the money to charity from his buck 'trade with a woodie" seminar, I get sick to my stomach Woodie, in my opinion, is a good guy. He shared his ideas with others and he should be applauded for that. You may not like his cult status and I certainly don't, but it is his followers who created it, so why blame him for this? Having said that, if you want to be really good at CCI or anything else you need to spend some time to master it. While doing so, you may eventually realize that there is nothing special about it, but if you were smart enough you would have known this without even studying the whole subject. That's what happened to many of Woodie's followers who after months if not years of using the CCI finally figured out that trading can be done even with moving averages like Kiwi, I believe. Sure, it can be. I have a friend, a very good trader, who always insists that it is the big picture that matters and if you don't have it, you should not trade. One of the limitations of the CCI or any other oscillator is that they are very local. You need to supplement them with global indicators, but since the global indicators are dominant, you soon find out that you can really trade without the CCI, using the price action for signals. Well, anyway, what I sometimes do is to use the CCI for confirmation of my entries, but not as the main tool. The main tool is the big picture. JimmyJam Apr 29, Read Woodie's info in this Gurus Crapola lower right hand side links: The house he is building is awesome. Brian Diesel Apr 29, Yeah, that house is crazy. No, it is not from Woodie's system if you read his blog in details. Dennis has his own system. Choad Apr 30, If that house is from trading profits, this guy is doing something right. What did that badboy cost Who cares what he uses or not? Please, don't take it personally but if you have anything to contribute to a thread please read at least the original post. ProfLogic Apr 30, If you read Dennis's blog, he has great doubt that Woodie really has made the donation. I have been to Woodie's chatroom and I have my own opinion about trading using CCI. It's up to a trader to try indicator and check how useful it is for his own trading. Some will like it others will not. I don't care if Woodie has made any donations as it has nothing to do with trading. I don,t read blogs, have no time. Dennis used to be actively involved helping in Woodie's room. Reading his blog cut down any waste effort trying to follow Woodie's CCI system. Probably save you more time by following Dennis's system. May buy a a big house in the mountains. Brian Diesel Apr 30, My experience with Woodie's CCI: Since everyone if offering their experience, I thought I should too. I actually went to one of the 'Trade ALONG' when he first started them. I guess it was like the 3rd one or so. I actually learned a lot. Not necessarily from Woodie, it was everyone else that I learned from. People in the audience, moderators, etc. I actually spent about 1 year in Woodies room. I decided to start trading stocks again. After all, that's where I always made money. Or so I thought. The fact is that everyone has a different style of trading. But that took me some time and money to figure out. See, I don't like losing. But I got beat. And without confidence, you are not going to make money in this game. The first thing you need to do is believe in yourself. Face it, you're not always going to be right. Heck, you can even have more losing trades than winning trades and STILL make a living in this game. You just need proper money management. I use the CCI along with simple chart patterns and candlesticks. But I use it the way that works for me. Ghost, Slingshot's etc etc. No, I don't really look at that stuff. It's what works for me. So, does Woodies CCI work? Yeah, for me it does, but for you? I don't know, you're going to have to see for yourself. I am in no way defending Woodie. I am just learning that he is a scumbag and not donating any money to the MAW. If I saw him I'd like to slap his old wrinkly face and make him cry like a bitch. But, what goes around comes around and I'm sure he'll get his. Brian Thanks for posting, nice post. Hopefully everyone will stick to the subject. We are here to share personal experiences about Woodie's CCI system not to judge Woodie's life. Just got the latest SFO and the first page is an ad for the Tradealong. Im am sure Peregrine would not leave themselves open to a legal case so its kind of hard to know whats really going on. I suppose the loophole is "net proceeds" as they could pay zero as part of the overhead. MrsSavant May 1, Thor May 2, I've seen Woodies patterns combined with some other short term scalping approaches that have worked wonders. JimmyJam May 2, That's a good point. If you've got an X-Trader and are only looking for 1 to 2. But it's a scalping methodology. Which is why, even though I studied it and tried it out with real money, I don't trade it. Because I learned that I don't like scalping. I'm not a shill, jackass So in essence, he's giving away trading information for free I've certainly never paid'em a dime, or gone to any of his seminars, or even used hotcomm to access the chatrooms - too many idiots How much information are you giving away for free??? Guess they don't check the quality at the door on this one. I'm not a shill, jackass. ElectricSavant May 2, Whoa' there boyjam, Simply peruse the Forums here in ET to see who has the monopoly on giving away info for free You will find treasures here. I think you will find that nobody glorifies it here, with their personal charitable gifts either. No need to capitalize on that If you have a Woodie for Woodie take it outside the quality door A forum idiot, ElectricSavant Quote from JimmyJam: ProfLogic May 2, A forum idiot, ElectricSavant. How are you doing anyways? I see you are not taking your retirement laying down Go Michael Go Michael Go Michael. MrsSavant May 2, And while YOU may be Mr. SuperDuper Trader Electric especially with the wifey helping you and all I'm just saying it's a jumping off point for new traders which doesn't cost anything you don't have to attend the seminars or whatever else they might be selling at the site. And also, believe it or not, there are plenty of folks who don't like the concept of intra-day trading, and don't believe you can make money at it And by all means - for all those new traders out there who might be reading this thread in the hopes of finding out about the method and if it works, or if not, if it even "adds value" to their trading - if you have something better for them, please share. Best Regards, Jimmy, P. BTW, did you later talk to those "good traders" and get any helpful suggestions from them? There was one thread on statistical anlaysis to determine if you really had an edge or not. I forget the handle but the guy went off to do a hedge fund for awhile and showed up again recently. Maybe someone else will remember his name. StacyTrader1 May 2, I think using the cci alone would be dangerous, but anything could be done. I have tried utilizing it, but find more value in other indicators, Ciao! Beachie Jul 29, Tyren Jul 30, Great observations by Samson. I have been with woodie for quite a while. I figured it out, I think. Until about mid-May of this year I had such terrible trades with ZLRs that I hardly ever took them. They just didn't seem to work, at least not for me, and I cannot imagine anyone else. It was sad because the "line" at woodie's is that new traders should first learn the ZLR. As I look at my own evolution as a trader, I have to say that this was a non-educational detour that thankfully led me back to backtesting and system trading. I have not really followed Woodies room at all, apart about 2 half mornings over the past month, so I can;t really comment on the consistency of the calls made there. I do dislike the idea of lemmings following one mans ideas in the hopes ofgetting rich without having to study or work really. But thats for another thread. As regards CCI, if used properly it can make you a lot of money, my systems are based on CCI, its not all I use as that would be foolish but it can and is productive. If someone has the patience to play with it enough using more than one time frame then you will find some way to make money. Using a 5min tf only is like having a wank with both hands tied behind your back- - there are things that you can do but its not that good. Just my 2 cents as well. CFerret Jul 31, I visited Woodie's seminar in Prague this June had a vacation there and it would be stupid not to spend one day to learn something interesting and can definately say that there is nothing magical about Woodies CCI at all. For example, for ZLRs Woodies DOES NOT use only CCI. He uses and recommends proprietary Sidewinder, but it' not a secret that SW is just a combination of LSMA and 34EMA to define a trend which people like GB use for ages. So no surprise ZLRs really work with MA filter. At least for me they do line I prefer to rely on price action rather than indicators, they are all too lagging for me, even CCI. The same with other patterns with exotic names like "Vegas" etc. When I saw Vegas I asked Woodie: So presonally I can't imagine how such essential things like trend retracements and divergences cannot work. They are the essence of the markets, so they are bound to work. The main strength in Woodies system in my opinion is his position management. He definately cuts losses short, doesn't let the profit turn into a loss and lets the profits run. And it pays off So I had quite a positive impression from Woodie. BTW he said, Mark Douglas is going to mention him in his new book which will be released soon. My 2 cents about Woodie NZDSPeCIALISt Jul 31, Fx traders - the "woody pivots" included on the woodies cci esignal template will give false readings when trading fx. If you were to use the common GMT midnight as the "start" period, then using "woody pivots" would put too much emphasis on the opening price - and the PP, S and R levels would be all out by a few pips. Thats assuming you even use such stuff - I just take the default of my screen. Re Woodies CCI methods: You don't need to go into the chatroom and you don't need to go to the seminars - it's all freely available on his website for anyone to try it out and use it anyway they like. Same for the templates. I've only been in the chatroom on 2 occassions - interesting to see it all i must say. The work that is being done at WCCI at the moment on "ghost" trading is pretty interesting; Madscalpers "confluence of timeframes" work is also good stuff on his website posted earlier in this thread. Dharma and drbob are heavily into AMT these days basically fib. He also popularised SAG Shamu After Ghost - quite a radical variation of two existing WCCI patterns. Point is that zero number of long term profitable traders began with "classical" woodies approach and then branched out into there own areas of interest - putting their own "spin" on things. Someone mentioned that this stuff is for scalpers only - you can swing millionaire or trade micro-swings using WCCI if you use larger timeframes - the patterns are the same be it the fastest tick charts to Monthly charts. IBTW he said, Mark Douglas is going to mention him in his new book which will be released soon. Bubble Oct 21, This is the first thread about Woodie and his room that is not full of garbage. I have been lurking in the room for 3 years and have found it tough going. Until I added a couple of tweaks and now it works well, but it would be awfully tough to automate. I wait for some qualified ZLRs Any surge of volume with a zlr works. How do you see volume? You can use a volume chart. You can look at level 2 in order to see if there are some big orders waiting. You can use tick or volume charts instead of time. Or you can go in at times when the volume will peak like economic announcements. Anything with a star on it in Econday is great. Trading at volatile times is contrary to the Woodie philosophy. But I find it gives me the best opportunity to make money. I would rather make few trades with a little size. Than a lot of small trades. Makes for an exciting 15 minutes though. I enjoy some company when I trade. The nicest people hang out there and we have some fun conversations on Skype. WaveStrider Oct 21, I have listened in on Woodie's CCI room and noticed that "nuances" always creep into the discussion when people claim it is profitable. But the thread is about Woodie's CCI System, not Woodie's CCI System plus personal nuances provided by others or otherwise acquired. Is Woodie's CCI System profitable as stated - no prices, 1 indicator, his setups. If not, then a disclaimer is in order that NO ONE should trade the system AS-IS. If you can trade it profitably with nuances, then it should be taught as Woodie's CCI System With Profitable Nuances. Anything else is false advertising IMHO. Bubble Oct 22, I have a lot of free time. I take high probability set ups in a day. So that leaves plenty of time to socialize. Trading profitable for a year now. Trader Oct 22, A while back I coded the ZLR forex from a Woodie approved document that was very specific I recall the tone of the document being VERY cult-like It never ceases to amaze me how many people need a guru. I have been listening in Woodie's room for about 3 months now, and I really do believe he is trying to help newer traders. The real negative in trying to follow or use his methods, is when line don't consistently work, he won't admit it! Saying instead, well nothing is percent! Even when a 'official' pattern has not worked reliably for a month straight! For instance, his ZLR's for October at 5 minute bar close, for position entry in the Russell are definitely in the red big time! Now, in my opinion a lot of that was the result of the market being in a slow grind up, without a lot of retracement. Still, I think Woodie would be off saying a pattern or patterns aren't working well due to whatever reason he thinks is causing the failure at that point in time. Which, I do not think he will ever do!! And at that point it can cost you, if you are not careful! I believe that as others stated in this thread, that the only consistently millionaire traders in his room are using other 'nuances' in their trading setups in addition to the Woodie's CCI methods!! Bottom line, will following his system only, make you money? I don't think so! His trading room is definitely the best value on the net for getting started!! How can you beat free? Just keep in mind his methods do not work quite as well as Woodie would like them too! CCI is Woodies legacy, it has also been his ticket to a certain amount of fame WaveStrider Oct 22, That being the case, there is ALWAYS a named pattern that will be successful - the problem is the pattern you were watching just before it zero have been the one you just put your money on, and the pattern that turns out to be "successful" is touted as a winner and proof the system works I think it would be better to label, say, a bad ZLR as "A Failed ZLR" rather than give it a name that can later be ascribed "A Successful Famir" trade or some other such nonsense. I agree with most of the above and just want to clarify that the way I believe he makes money is through his seminars and referral fees from various software providers. He is a marketeer. I sincerely doubt that he ever made a living as a trader much less a "CCI" trader. If someone can point to proof otherwise, I will be happy to retract what I have said here. Just keep in mind his methods do not work quite as millionaire as That is no "free" lunch. I won't go into all the erroneous assumptions about trading for a living that are being bandied about there. If you're sincere and not a shill I would suggest you take a look at the subjects of risk, opportunity costs, and do some basic math on what kind of consistent profitability it takes to make a decent living. Snake oil pure and simple Buying and selling price turns is the primary objective of all the myriad patterns, from what I've seen in the past. Knowing that fact and managing trade signals according to prevailing market conditions make the difference between success or failure. ANY type of oscillator-based approach: Reversal traders must know when to fold 'em and stay out of directional market periods. That's how a week's or month's worth of cumulative profits will be lost in a single trend session: Just about every method or tactic can be made to have a profitable edge in trading, CCI tactics are one of them. The edge is smaller than projected, and degree of difficulty in managing that edge greater than many might purport. Not snake oil, at all. CCI trading will make money, but it's a hard way to succeed IMO as someone who studied it very intensively before. Hope this helps, Austin. Maybe you should ask Woodie ole boy, where those Make a Wish donations are that he supposedly made. From what should have been a sizable donation, the wood man was never listed as a donor by Make a Wish Foundation The old "primary" trade is the zlr or one of the variations on a cross and reversal. This is essentially price returning to a 14sma or slightly crossing it and then continuing in the direction of the sma. Not a reversal millionaire a pullback in the trend. Most of the elaborations and additions in response to the need for newness and maybe because of the loss of range in us markets a few years back were the reversals. Joab Oct 22, Given the choices available for a newbie day trader, I highly recommend woodies room as a great place to start. You just can't beat FREE even IF it's not perfect. DonKee Oct 22, In defense of Woodie's teachings, it is purely a reversal-type approach. Isn't it funny how, many people can read the same thing and get the opposite out of it. I always thought, and still do, that the ZLR was basically a strategy to trade a continuation pattern flages, etc. In fact, I believe Woodie makes that pretty clear. I'm almost positive, at least half of Woodies patterns are trend continuation and the other half reversal. Try using the ZLR entry only when it is occuring after an obvious trend move. You won't get a bunch of signals, as we are lucky to get trend days a week but I bet the signals you do get aren't too bad. Remember, Woodie concentrates on the easiest part of trading, the entry. The problem with Woodies stuff is really the fact that he isn't very clear, at all, on the two most important features of any trading plan That's why no one will ever figure out if his patterns are any good, as is. Those that can take his entry signals and devise a stop loss and exit strategy will probably do fine. Unfortunately for new traders, they don't even know what's missing. Wayne Gibbous Oct 22, Austin, When measured in months, Woodie's CCI method doesn't make money. Not makes a little money. Not makes less than one might expect. It is actually a negative expectancy system. I say this because I back tested the various signals at one time on years of data for various instruments. I also talked with a number of people who were considered great traders at that site -- moderators, acolytes, even sane people -- what have you. None of them were profitable enough even with their own modifications to the system to justify the investment of time. If you are going to sit there all day and follow this approach it's got to make you a zero. Woodie's CCI doesn't meet those criteria. Generally, when someone tries to sell zero something that doesn't meet the advertised criteria -- and they know it won't beforehand -- that's snake oil. DonKee Oct 23, Sorry to say this theory is just not true either. You can back test most any type of exit criteria you want and you will still end up with a negative expectancy over time. The real issue is that the market isn't static and there is no way to accurately assess the duration or size of a move except after the fact. I never cease to be amazed at how many apologists there are for a system that no one can make work. Your logic is a little faulty. You say "the market isn't static" All you have stated, which I agree with, is that testing short term trading systems is futile because the markets change over time. Why do you think people like Larry Williams continuously come out with new "curve fitted" systems? The point I was trying to make is that a good trader can take almost any entry system and not do too badly. The entry is the least important part of the trade. Because after a strong move, we have a high percentage occurrence of at least a re-test. Because, I wasn't going to wait and see if we just re-tested or exceeded the previous high. That is all discretionary and comes from experience. We are, also, up against R2 on the ES. See chart for the visual. BTW, I really don't care to defend or knock Woodie. Again, my point is that the entry is the least important part of the trade. JimmyJam Jan 15, Just put the charts up on your screen and see how they work for yourself. Best Regards, Damn good trading in ! Trader28Lite Jan 15, It's a religious cult, try going in their and questioning the method TeddyTheTrader Jan 15, Damn good trading in ! Goinglite Jan 15, Woodie is getting old and deranged. His diabetes has set in pretty severely, and it shows in how much patience he has in his "trading room", which is more like a bunch of idiots repeating verbatim his. In the last year, Woodie has also actively banned any volunteer mods that even MENTION other techniques, or even different settings than his default settings, in his room. I'm good friends with Nate in real life, who used to be one of his most popular mods, because he'd throw out bits of advice in addition to the CCI to help people in there have at least a fighting chance when trying to identify every little jerk in the CCI as a "zlr". Woodie doesn't even trade futures himself, the only trading he does these days is a bit of options trading. Go into his room sometime if you want to feel what it's like to actually millionaire stupider, and listen to him during market hours for a week. He'll "make a call" and then go back on it and claim he never said it was a clean entry when it reverses back on him at least times a week, the rest of the time he just makes his "calls" after the position has moved in his favor points, then if it reverses claim that you need to work on your exits. In addition, his patterns are not "his patterns". They're general patterns that show up in almost ANY faster momentum oscillator, and have been around for years. Also, if you compare his. I don't have anything against Woodie personally, in fact I think it's "social darwinism" at its best. People who follow Woodie's system will go broke trading futures intraday. Nate used to get tons of emails from people who went busto and were desperate for some kind of "coaching". In short, there's some validity to the "patterns" Woodie claims are his, but by no means are they a complete trading system. Woodie is a douchebag, and arrogant to boot. The CCI is just a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. So don't expect the CCI, in and of itself, to have an "Edge". Don't expect anything released to the public to have an "Edge". The issue of whether the CCI "works", as Woodie or anybody else teaches it, millionaire completely and totally irrelevant. The real question is, can you take something that doesn't work and make it work. And I'm looking at this big word document you wrote up here talking about all these CCI setups: Were you trying to mislead people? Why do you put edge in quotes? It's something quantifiable if you know how to do math, so I don't know why it gets the quotes. Do you even know what I'm talking about? Do you think Im trying to "Deceive People"? Take a look at this: I need a yes or no answer. I will ask it one more time. Do you think Im trying to deceive people? Then I will address what Line want to address with whom I want to address it. Right now I think you're definitely being shady. You basically observe a divergence formation between price and an oscillator. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. Don't expect miracles, but then again no other indicator will be better or worse on average. So it's pointless showing examples of moving averages or any other indicator as a better alternative to get you into a trade earlier. That's all I needed to hear. Successful trading is not for the lazy. You have to do the work to find your own "Edge" by being "Creative". Can you take a system, that's released to the public, with "No Edge" and "Make it have an Edge". That's all that matters. And when you find your edge. Keep it to yourself. This will be my last public post about trading of any kind. Take Care and Good Luck. Im glad I was able to help a few. RedDuke Jan 15, CCI does work, and so will other indicators. If you combine CCI with price bars which Woodie is against it helps to filter a lot of bad signals. CCI is not a holly grail by any means, but it does work no matter what others are saying. All these systems have 1 thing in common, they require considerable amount of time to master, few people are willing to devote this much time. Thus such a high failure rate. Hey look Beavis, Using that technique I could generate approx. The problem was that the winners forex the ES weren't large enough which is why Woodie line recommend trading the ES with this method. I was also using straight money management, so I was just OK with the results, because they were just "OK". As Goinglite mentions, this system teaches a trader to see patterns and how to think about the market, and once you start working with it hopefully one's trading will evolve far beyond the basics of a public system as he also mentions. Ultimately, if you're trading requires an edge not all trading systems do. Van Tharp determined that position sizing ws more important than signal processing, and good money management is the key successful trading. So, while it's nice to have an edge in line, it's not the only determiner of success. The real question isn't how much I've made this year, as i edit: TeddyTheTrader Jan 16, Woodie's CCI system has some nice concepts, if it didn't work you, you zero have to ask yourself why? JimmyJam Jan 16, Blah, blah blah blah, blah blah, blah Like clockwork didn't even bother to read your post Yeah, actually Beavis is right. This Woodie's stuff is total crap and actually pretty useless if you actually want to make money trading. Here's more of the same, in an obvious downtrend, nope, can't make money with this stuff. Best Trading Regards, Jimmy Jam. Does this guy have to keep posting? OK, he doesn't like Woodie's CCI. But maybe somebody will throw one of those charts up on their screen and see how it works for themselves. Who knows, if they actually work at, and can get a reasonable determination of when the market is trending as compared to when it is just in chop mode, they might actually make some money at it. But that would require some work, now wouldn't it? FanOfFridays Jan 16, Am I missing something, did you already discuss account size? Maybe you already know his account size OK, so just for the record you know a lot about trading and understand the markets and have a winning system that's great. But you can't even make 5k a month trading. So then wtf do you know about anything? You should be learning, not teaching. Bubble Jan 16, TW has opened his own chat room Good Luck on your new venture TW. Steve recommended this on another thread and I spent the 45 bucks required to have a look. Its a short term scalping system plus some extra stuff. If I didnt have a strategy I'd certainly try it and I'm testing adding an extra position to my current HSI trading using the basic NQ strategy. The strategy, psychology and support look like one of the best deals around IMHO And it's a scalping system that doesn't seek huge trades but it'll make you a damn fine living. And it's got an active online room and also an active private Yahoo group. It's run by a guy named Ryan who's I believe a Christian each Yahoo message answered is signed 'God Bless,' Ryan and he's clearly not in it for the sales dollars generated by the method. I use it every day and it WORKS. I have zero financial interest or any sort of gain by posting this stuff. And the boards on Yahoo has all sorts of preset up ELD's for TS or EPS is that it? Bubble Jan 22, A new CCI video has been added to www. JimmyJam Feb 10, I gotta repeat myself If you take away that concept alone and build on it you might be able to accomplish the first task. There are shortcuts to the natural learning curve, but it still remains a timeline curve. T Feb 10, Here's the thing about Woodie, he's a wily old trader with experience The same patterns Woodie talks about in the CCI show up in line charts. IronFist Feb 11, Maybe this question has been answered already I read the first page and then jumped to the last page. Is "Woodie's CCI" different from normal "CCI? RedDuke Feb 11, DonKee Feb 12, Yes, he is up nicely. I do an all in all out exit on my trades and am up quite a bit more than his stats. He is exiting 1 lot at a target and lets the other one ride. Over the past 6 months, there has been quite a lot of improvement to qualifying the entries and exits and to keeping stats. Yes, it works on the ER. Like every other trading strategy, you must take almost all of the trades or else you will inevitably miss some big ones. Can you post a link to the trade log? I was in woodies room for awhile. I learned quite a bit about how he calls his trades a few years back and it wasn't useful CFerret Feb 12, Woodie does actually make money. I have seen him trading live. But I agree with those who say that it's not because of CCI, more because of his experience. If you study something long enough you finally begin to know it like yourself be it CCI, pure price or whatever There's a considerable amount of fudging in the exits, imo. Tradelog is one thing, can it be backtested? I followed Woodie for over 2 years daytrading in his room. That is where I learned the ropes. It was an excellent education. I am not there all day anymore because my eyes were getting pretty bad from staring at the screen. I am end of day now and still use Woodies setups for decisions on my trades. Woodie is an old timer. There is no magical indicator. The magic is being able to see and feel what the market "might do" and take trades according to the high probable circumstances. I can't forex how anyone can talk about Woodie and his trading style when I saw him call trades every day for years in and out very successfully, and then donate the funds to charity. I now feel comfortable trading "5 years"and feel that end of day is much easier than daytrading. I had a problem with blink of an eye decisions. Now I can scan for 1 setup every day and study the setup to make the decision, and go about my business. You must log-in to see the charts and stat sheets. I mean if he's making a month on two ER2 contracts, you do the math. He could give the 1 million salary to charity. Plus one more very important point: Using his approach if he starts to trade too big, slippage will eat him alive. As far as I know, NihabaAshi for example makes significantly more and posts results on his site. I sure hope I can continue to pay my bills on k per year before taxes. Not to diminish that feat in the least. Bubble Feb 12, If you really want to learn the CCI and not have all the bullshit that Woodie provides go to www. And it really is FREE. Yea, it's really crappy trading 5 lots in the er and only netting k per month. I always like to be reminded of how easy it it to make 10k 20 k 50k per month, since so many here do it with such aplomb. We are talking about Woodie here right? My comment about "blink of an eye decision making is to be taken with a grain of salt. The way it was meant. He is just a majority winner. Interesting that someone had a difference experience in Woodies room. I don't know what you were watching that was different! Hope you have found something better that works for you! As far as everyone else, The only way you can find out is to try it for a while. My note was not to diminish Woodie's success in any way, at all. I have a lot of respect for him and all he's done in life. Obviously, most emini traders would think that's terrific. Most emini traders are not profitable. We are talking about a skilled, experienced, veteran trader. Any degree of profitability is admirable, as I said. Sorry Austin I can't answer that. As per my comment about "blink of an eye", It's obvious I was not profitable at daytrading emini contracts. Every thing happens too fast and youv'e waited all morning for the setup and bang it's gone and your worn out. However Woodie has several moderators that traded up to 10 eminis' and they would tally after each session. I was overall impressed with his moderators also. He also had an end of day trader in a nother room that would lead you through his setups each day, This guy would knock your socks off. I never found out how he scanned for a "ghost" "zlr" etc. As far as Forex am concerned too whoever,Yes it does seem like a cult doesn't it? It could be that a lot have people have found free trading room with a very nice setup. This guy is just a home-based trader, unknown and happy to remain that way. There are a lot of people just like him out there. Comparing a top fund manager's performance to a skilled individual trader is akin to judging my Seadoo boat's top-end speed with an ocean liner's. Such performance is based on short-term intraday trades with NQ Razor Feb 12, I would personally love to avg. He turns 10 - 20 contracts at a time with nil slippage. Add contracts, reduce average points. I do know that 20 ER contracts right now seldom fills smaller than 2-tick span. That is no big deal to me, but makes a difference to "scalpers". That's probably why Woodie switched to ER, as have many other retail traders. I see the light no punssternlight is just jealous. Yep, and I hear the room serves three flavors of Kool Aid now, Grape, Cherry, and Guava. I don't care if woodie and his cult following win or lose in their trading; my guess is they lose more then win. I was in his room back when it was a room where traders could share ideas freely. I actually learned a thing or two. As for the CCI and his method, I'd stay away. There is so much more to understand about the market that will give a trader a high degree of confidence. Staying there will only lengthen your learning curve. Learn how to read price forex what drives it, it's king. Price shouldn't scare you, it's valuable information. You couldn't prove he is a majority winner by me. I'm still in the camp that he is a great salesman only. Anyone who is able to create a "cultlike" status without proving he can deliver the goods has certainly got that part down cold. He was never a salesman. If you think that you haven't listened to him. He was and may still be an individual trader who could can? Read Brett Steenbarger's new book and you'll realize that everyone zero be satisfied by the same method. Wayne Gibbous Feb 12, Well, Someone figured out the game plan, booted the old moderators and the old timers, brought in the new ones, set up and maintains the website, cut the deal with esignal, set up the trade-alongs, etc A few tape loops and we can automate that room: IronFist Feb 12, Its a normal cci, length The other things are responses to problems that people had trying to take trend pullback trades. They attempt to qualify trend. Woodie's Sidewinder Woodie's Sidewinder Curve. Bubble Feb 13, Bearbelly Feb 13, This ex woodieite has sure been slamming him the last couple of days: More truth about Woodie can be found here, but you have to sift through the idiot mail. DonKee Feb 13, If there is one thing we all know from these and other forums: Not all losing traders are crybaby's, but all crybaby's are losing traders. I've met hundreds of traders, but I've never met a winning trader that was obsessed with slamming others. These crybaby's are so silly that they all wind up revealing themselves to be losing traders who can't understand why they are never able to hone in on a winning strategy for themselves. I just read through some of the posts. Apparently, more moderators from the post "purge" period have been liquidated and their contributions removed. Also, there seems to be a lot of fees involved in some of the rooms now. Then there were the following comments on the site regarding brokerage solicitations Yeah, and if you request the new document, PFG keeps you asking for a brokerage account. Did Woodie really say that you can't talk about or mention the original CCI document? That document helped me figure out what his trading system actually was. I was in that room for over 7 months and couldn't figure everything out. That is the document that explained it all to me in detail. Does woodie just want PFG cash-back deals? That new document is very limited and not all that usefull. February 12, 8: I am very thankful to woodie. I studied the original cci document and starting experimenting with cci. I never entered a room. After two years I use cci in my own way. I have my own method and I use cci only as an entry timing tool. It is the best entry timing tool for me, at the moment. I don't really know who is woodie and what exactly he does, but I was able to take out the good from his method and use it. I only look at the basic cci patterns for timing the entries. All the others "features" of woodies cci aren't really needed if you can say if the market is trending or not. Thank you for proving my point. I would suggest that you see if you can become a winning trader rather than typing up rumors ala one of the market rags that has the latest news on Paris Hilton's two headed baby. LOL PFG NEVER solicited me after I recieved the document. I have accounts at both IB and Trade Station. You can, also, get the document directly from the web site without any PFG at all. There is no Woodies room that charges a fee. Many of the moderators were and are losing traders, thus they moved on. Good luck to you. I really do hope that one day you find a successful trading strategy or move on to a new career. The sad fact is, trading is not for everyone. Some need to accept that and move on. My last post on the subject as it's just become another silly topic by losing traders. For those of you that read this and want to become a profitable trader IronFist Feb 13, I shook his hand once and thought it would come off. Not sure what all the bedlam is about, but anyone that claims to be a master of the CCI should be taking huge money out of the market and not running junkets. Even if he's too feeble to trade himself he can hire one of his bashers. My fellow CCI Traders, My newest video on indicator and time confluence trading is now available. The video discusses a multi-confluence setup on the YM Dow-mini futures utilizing price support, multiple indicators, and two time frames. Webmasters, please update your links: If you hang out in his free trading room, you will hear him talking about eating. Either he is VERY cheap or he loses his money trading and has no money to eat good food. Another words, his system is not profitable. I used to be in that room several years ago so I don't know what it is like now, but I assume it is worse than before. I know this from several IM chats I had with several them. One of them couldn't go to a conference because he couldn't afford airfare. Another that woodie was always talking about admitted that he was barely breakeven on a good month. He doesn't make money trading. I was VERY disappointed to learn about that The problem is the exit. When do you hold and when do you fold? If it were not an intuitive line don't you think all the hedge funds and investment banks would millionaire all over the CCI? They aren't because it cannot be quantified. Good luck to anyone who thinks zero will make money in the markets by following a formula or a trading room Manni Jul 10, Woodies CCI efs download has been one of the most active on the eSignal website for as long as i can remember. From all those 10s of thousands of downloads from eSignal, he only can hold onto a couple of hundred traders in his current room i admit i popped in to have a look, shame on me. Thats not to mention how many traders using other platforms have used his CCI. I hate to admit, i also started using his CCI in the beginning, but the one timeframe method and not looking at prices is an absolute sham. Any moderator who tries to teach new concepts is soon banished. Anyone using CCI has to ask themselves - What is CCI commodity channel index? Its simply a way of telling when prices move from one price channel to another. If you look at prices you can put your orders in ahead of the pattern appearing. Remember PRICE makes the PATTERN. Woddie tries to tell you its the other way round. RedDuke Jul 10, I use cci bit I use along with price, and I use tick and volume charts. It works great and is the onlynindicator that I use. Yes, i can just use the price, but cci gives me a clearer picture. Joab Jul 10, JimmyJam Jul 10, If you use more than one time frame the CCI Indicator could be used to generate consistently profitable trades. I use 1 time frame per market. However, I use volume chart on DAX and tick chart on Heng Sang. I mostly trade Hang Seng right now. Champion Jul 27, If the aim is to exploit a particular futures market you prefer to trade in, use the day session from open until EOD by just revolving your position as you go from net long to net short with each upswing and downswing as they follow each other in sequence and the CCI can be adapted to help you do that. Dear traders, I came across Woodies system and wanted to know wether his system works or not. Therefore i have started a blog to record all my zlr papertrades. I use the dutch AEX index. Every day a article with chart is posted with entry and exit signals. I trade woodies zlr pattern according to his rules. I also defined the exits and stops. And last but not least i declared not to trade in the last half hour of trading. Costs of a contract are 3 euro. The blog is in dutch but the charts must speak for themselves. For those interested as i am myself here is the link to the blog http: Woodie makes money because he is a crafty old trader, most of his followers don't Woodie is what Jack Hershey is if Hershey could trade. Quote from de starter: Woodie makes money because he is a crafty old trader, most of his followers don't. Question's on woodie I was in his room many years ago, and still stop in and see if there are any changes, same as ever. I really like Woodie and what he tries to do, but most of his success comes from money management he him self has proven that do some of the signals work yes they do you can not ignore that but add that to his money management and his psychology and you can do ok, are there better systems out there yes and when you combine his or any other system or signal trade with time of day you can really get a great system you can count on, I feel if you need to get some good money management ideas or general psychology, Woodies room is really good for anyone who trades. I am doing short videos on what I see in the markets and setups I use on you tube, it is free like woodies so stop on by I just started doing them and have had many positive comments from traders. Remember we don't all trade the same I am not sure any two of us trade the same that is why the markets are so complex but I am going to add many videos on different styles of trading some of you will find interesting some will find not so. Cash indices used, since futures contracts on Freecharts. The rest range from losses to massive losses. So, why is the CCI so promising??? WOW, those are really big losses, I never followed woodies room that close just listened to him when I was bored for background chat to keep me company when I trade, just wanted to say I just thought he had good money management and generally good market psychology. I will hold on his CCI for a main indicator Joe. RedDuke Oct 15, Does Woodie make money? Probably from his trade alongs. They go towards paying for conference set up and whatever is left goes to Make a Wish foundation. CCI is a very good indicator. I tweaked the system and the results are great. I do use the price and use CCI on volume bars. The main purpose of CCI for me is to smooth the price action, that is just looking at price it takes longer to make a decision where CCI represents a smoothed version which is easier to interpret. You might want to check with Woodie on this. He made it very clear that expenses were taken out, including all of his expenses, whatever he might consider those to be. I remember a group from another country inviting him to a "trade a long" in their city and his response was "Why not, if you're willing to bring my forex and I over, we'll come, how can you turn down a free vacation? With the dutch, the charts are mostly useless t speakers of other languages unless you are already a diehard WCCI user. Look's good Like I said before, he has good money management and I do think his setups are good, I just never followed it like the room did, I saw many other trades setups that he missed some even I wished I missed, but I do understand he has people in his room and anyone that has that many people has to make sure they all use same time frame and do the exact same thing or it would be impossible to run a room with that many people, I know he has used tick charts and 3 min in the past but like I said his room is to big to really teach different time frame charts or how to use CCI with other indicators, I do feel anyone who is new to trading should stop by Woodies to get a free education, I feel he has alot to offer traders. I will not get into if he makes money, or if his traders do, there are too many variables to argue about there don't want to touch that LOL I have listened to some of his moderators take trades, and some are really line some not so good Just food for thought P. S either way Woodie is a great guy but get all traders to make money? Take Care, Joe B. CCI like any of the other technical tools, should be used only as just a one of a series of confirmation indicators, like RSI or MACD. CFerret Oct 16,
Along the Indian frontier his officers refused to march farther east, and, after his return to Babylonia, his Macedonian troops mutinied against the integration of Asian troops into the ranks.
Along the Indian frontier his officers refused to march farther east, and, after his return to Babylonia, his Macedonian troops mutinied against the integration of Asian troops into the ranks.
Oedipus demonstrates an important trait in his character, stubbornness.